UN votes for air strikes on Libya as Gaddafi warns of reprisals if West attacks

Re: F-22

The F-22 is a multirole fighter, it's primary role is usually a fighter while the secondary role is air-to-surface attack.
It was designed specifically to be an air superiority fighter. It has a very limited ground attack role, even with external stores. Yes, it has attack capability, but that's not what it was designed for.

The F-15, let alone F-15E, was designed to be a true multi-role The F-15E was the result of the Air Force's call for a designated strike aircraft. It won over the F-16XL, among other submissions.

And given the price for a F-22, it's not going to be used over the F-15E for it any time soon. The F-15E attack capability makes the F-22 a non-consideration.
 
Pro-Gaddafi demonstrations in Belgrade, Serbia. That's the last place I'd thought we'd find any Libyans.






Libyan rebels regain Ajdabiya after RAF Tornado jets wreak havoc on Gaddafi's heavy units

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...airstrikes-Gaddafis-forces.html#ixzz1HjEcXkwt


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Success: People celebrate at the western gate after forces loyal to Gaddafi fled following coalition air strikes around the eastern town of Ajdabiyah

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People chant slogans and hold posters of Moammar Gaddafi as they protest in Belgrade, Serbia to show support for the Libyan leader


A nation divided for 2,000 years, united by Mussolini

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Annexation: Italian fascist leader Benito Mussolini united three independent regions in north Africa to create modern Libya

The idea of dividing Libya into two regions – as suggested by armed forces minister Nick Harvey this week – has strong historical pedigree.

In fact, the way the civil war has split the country between a western region centred on Tripoli and an eastern region at Benghazi mirrors the situation over the 2,000 years before the Italian takeover of 1911.

Historically, Benghazi is part of Cyrenaica, founded in the 7th century BC by Greek colonists around the ancient city of Cyrene.

Tripoli – 1,200 miles to the West – was, on the other hand, founded by Carthaginians, who wanted to trade with the indigenous Berber tribesmen.

Over two millennia both colonies maintained their separate identities. Greek-influenced Cyrenaica developed a reputation for arts, crafts, medicine and learning while Tripoli focused on the commercial skills of its founders. The Roman historian Plutarch described the Carthaginians as ‘coarse and gloomy, submissive to those who govern them and despotic to those they govern’.

Trade – indeed all contact – between the two regions was rare; land travel over such large distances was difficult and the sea route was not favoured by the prevailing winds.

Under Persian, Egyptian and Macedonian rule, the two regions stayed apart and when the Romans rolled in, they ruled Tripolitania province directly but joined Cyrenaica to their existing province of Crete.

Tripoli and Benghazi had a common language and common legal system but continued to develop separately.

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Leadership: King Idris, left, was the first and only king of Libya, reigning from 1951 until he was deposed in a coup led by Colonel Gaddafi, right, in 1969

The East embraced Christianity until the marauding Vandals, then Arab invaders and later Ottoman Turks suppressed those who followed the religion.

Under the Ottomans, Tripoli became one of the great cities of the region, jewel of what was known as the Maghreb, or Barbary Coast. Its population was predominantly Moorish and Muslim.

While the Ottoman empire crumbled Tripolitania stayed rich, largely through piracy and the slave trade, which was allowed to continue until 1890.

In 1911, Italy invaded, annexing Tripolitania, Cyrenaica, and southern Fezzan as three separate colonies. Mussolini combined them in 1934 into a new country he called Libya, a Latin corruption of Libu, the Greek name for the Berbers.

The country has stayed together under King Idris and Muammar Gaddafi – until now.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...airstrikes-Gaddafis-forces.html#ixzz1HjGFbdRK
 
A demonstration by a group of nationalists who I'm guessing are still pissed off about NATOs interference in the Kosovan conflict - it being the 12th anniversary of the start of NATOs bombing campaign.

I understand that part but I just never expected to see Libyans in Belgrade although having just read up on it a bit Serbia does enjoy good relations with North African countries. I guess I learn something knew everyday :)
 
I understand that part but I just never expected to see Libyans in Belgrade although having just read up on it a bit Serbia does enjoy good relations with North African countries. I guess I learn something knew everyday :)

Indeed.

Gaddafi's support of Milosevic during said bombing campaigns (which within this particular crowd can't have hurt) being just one of the many ties that stretch back further than one would have imagined.
 

JayJohn85

Banned
Oil......Basically your looking at the start of what me and a few others have long preached on this.....The opening salvo in the resource wars due to the complacency and stupidity of oil corporations.....One of their own fucking made maths models showing it peaked in the 80s......Stability issues on the purse strings.....What's cool is the liberty excuse will work this time. Oh yea and flooding the media with conflicting facts and statistics....Its fucking textbook. If you can't convince them confuse the hell outta them.

Another couple of years we are looking at nationalization and if humanity doesn't use the last power resources on the fucking planet to build new power generation then you can kiss all the nice shit away for your grand children.....Total regression. No the world won't end but it will be engulfed in even more conflict....I wouldn't be surprised if deep down nuclear disarmament is just their because everybody secretly knows some shit is going to hit the fan.....Those asses in power and it doesn't matter what lot.....Nukes mean if someone is sore about losing a conflict.....Night night.

PS> Sort out power generation.....We will continue to progress....Eventually get off this mud ball I reckon. And fight neo-colonial wars unless we find some ETs to hate on.

PSS> Even madder......How hard would it be for intelligence agencies to forment the discontent within these regimes.....They propped them up themshelves.....Aww shit someone is going to silence me someday lmfao.
 

And gas, don't forget about gas.

With Gaddafi threatening to nationalise Libya's energy reserves on the eve of the NFZ and then quite possibly selling it to the BRIC nations, giving Russia (holy look who abstained from voting at the UNSC, Batman ;)) an even larger strangle hold on the energy resources flowing into the EU. Given the fact that about 50% of the oil flowing into France, Italy and a couple other European nations is Libyan you can't help but assume that these operations once they went ahead are seen as an opportunity to wrestle that stranglehold away from Russian and Chinese hands.

I don't see that as a bad thing. Though, some might.
 

JayJohn85

Banned
Who cares who supplies it we all gotta trade with each other.....Why kill your customers.....Events like this only happen when your in a cornor.....We are heading for the cornor if they don't get the finger out and seriously invest on weening us off oil....We need the oil to produce and research the alternatives What we don't need is alternative repression due to fucking greed then when the last barrels are getting squeezed out.....We giving it the "what the fuck" then witch hunts and all the media blitz bull......Too little too late.

PS> I hope one of them is reading this....Because take my word for it, even your self perpetuating systems of old will tumble down if sufficient masses are angry enough.....History will repeat itself in all its ugly glory.
 
I read a comment on a news website recently where someone said that oil was lubricating the continental plates and as we used up more and more oil there was going to be more earthquakes as a result.
 
Who cares who supplies it we all gotta trade with each other.....Why kill your customers.....Events like this only happen when your in a cornor.....We are heading for the cornor if they don't get the finger out and seriously invest on weening us off oil....We need the oil to produce and research the alternatives What we don't need is alternative repression due to fucking greed then when the last barrels are getting squeezed out.....We giving it the "what the fuck" then witch hunts and all the media blitz bull......Too little too late.

Well, we care because Russia (and to a lesser extent China) does have a tendency to pressure and blackmail those who rely on it by threatening to cut them off on a whim at any given opportunity and giving them a monopoly on energy supplies given their past actions, isn't something I'm sure the nations involved in this conflict are willing to do.

While I think reducing oil consumption is important at this current time it just isn't a very realistic and attainable goal, I'm sad to say.
 

JayJohn85

Banned
Well probably the reason why France and Britain where very keen to jump into this Libya thing.....But I also think when it comes to renewable energy Europe is not so bad....Only the leading developers in the field.....The Russian thing probably helps....China a supplier? Are you sure....I thought they where more of a consumer due to rapid industrialization and a probable cause of tension later.....Because demand has also sky rocketed....And you can hardly tell the Chinese to stop consuming.

As more and more crap hits the fan like Syria next. I'd say you will see some of this tension if Russia and China decide to veto a UN resolution.....Which could well happen it all depends on where China herself is gaining its external supply.
 

JayJohn85

Banned
Basically they all know what is going on and tip toeing around each other pursuing the globalization agenda or appear to.....All is business as usual....Really waiting to see what each other does next....They won't interfere with each other so long as they don't disrupt each others resources....Which can't last forever if they pursue this blind hearted dependence on one resource.....For fucksake most nucleur technology is 1950s old, get the finger out, dig out what may have been suppressed in the past like them urban legends on the cars that ran on coffee.

The middle east is fucked though....
 

JayJohn85

Banned
The more I think about it.....It's not a bit wonder Israel probably moving towards peace and shit but also basically they aren't reliable allies....They too have been used by the west....They moved them there not out of some end timer bullshit belief even though that added to it for some or good natured motives.....But because they needed to stop the middle east becoming collectively strong.

Humanity's a funny thing and truth stings.....No politician would survive if they where to admit these things to their populations....Mark my words man tis the opening salvo.
 

TheOrangeCat

AFK..being taken to the vet to get neutered.
Kinda awesome actually because you don't know who is mocking hence you don't even know what his actual opinions are.

It's dated, but if you just substitute whoever is CURRENT WORLD ENEMY OF THE WEEK for Commies, UN for US (although we all know which country's planes will be first off the runway), it's disturbingly on point .....:D
 

JayJohn85

Banned
Yea but he is mocking both....The liberals types who frame the extreme right in that light.....And then mocking the extreme right who may actually be like that.....I don't think it will ever be dated.

PS> I am fucking stuck in the middle!
 
Well probably the reason why France and Britain where very keen to jump into this Libya thing.....But I also think when it comes to renewable energy Europe is not so bad....Only the leading developers in the field.....The Russian thing probably helps....China a supplier? Are you sure....I thought they where more of a consumer due to rapid industrialization and a probable cause of tension later.....Because demand has also sky rocketed....And you can hardly tell the Chinese to stop consuming.

As more and more crap hits the fan like Syria next. I'd say you will see some of this tension if Russia and China decide to veto a UN resolution.....Which could well happen it all depends on where China herself is gaining its external supply.

You are correct in terms of China and that is the role I was applying to them in my original post - apologies, it's not very clear. Creating competition between the the EU/China, etc using China's significant economic advantage over a lot of EU nations as a threat to keep the EU nations that rely on Russian gas a primary resource supplier in line - or so I'm sure they believe.

Syria, is slightly different from a lot of the countries we've seen where these protests have occurred. Given the fact that it seems the military, are quite well trained and loyal - and therefore more likely to be somewhat more ruthless in their crackdowns - as opposed a lot of the forces currently fighting in Libya for example, no wonder Gaddafi is supposedly asking for volunteers. Plus the fact that the regime still has quite a bit of support given Assad's opposition to Israel. While I of course support the protests, it's harder to see the Syrian regime falling than it is any of the others at this current time - unless of course there's some sort of outside intervention, which I doubt will come.
 

TheOrangeCat

AFK..being taken to the vet to get neutered.
Yea but he is mocking both....The liberals types who frame the extreme right in that light.....And then mocking the extreme right who may actually be like that.....I don't think it will ever be dated.

PS> I am fucking stuck in the middle!

Kenny was a genius ....
 
bottom line is countries cannot continue to afford these illegal wars when there are so many problems within their own countries and as the US dollar continues to devalue into oblivion, more americans will continue to wake up to the fact that the US is borrowing billions of dollars to continue these illegal wars while the quality of life at home continues to diminish and at some point the system will have to collapse and reset, its just sad that so many people still believe that wars solve anything, all wars do is make the banksters richer and the average person poorer
 
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