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The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move by GPS

Facial_King

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
Nobody needs to tell me how much Time (or Newsweek, or USNews & World Report) are all major suckage, but for this particular item Time deserves some credit:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2013150,00.html

Excerpts:

Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway — and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

That is the bizarre — and scary — rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants — with no need for a search warrant.
....

This case began in 2007, when Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents decided to monitor Juan Pineda-Moreno, an Oregon resident who they suspected was growing marijuana. They snuck onto his property in the middle of the night and found his Jeep in his driveway, a few feet from his trailer home. Then they attached a GPS tracking device to the vehicle's underside.
...

In fact, the government violated Pineda-Moreno's privacy rights in two different ways. For starters, the invasion of his driveway was wrong. The courts have long held that people have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their homes and in the "curtilage," a fancy legal term for the area around the home. The government's intrusion on property just a few feet away was clearly in this zone of privacy.

The judges veered into offensiveness when they explained why Pineda-Moreno's driveway was not private. It was open to strangers, they said, such as delivery people and neighborhood children, who could wander across it uninvited.

Chief Judge Alex Kozinski, who dissented from this month's decision refusing to reconsider the case, pointed out whose homes are not open to strangers: rich people's. The court's ruling, he said, means that people who protect their homes with electric gates, fences and security booths have a large protected zone of privacy around their homes. People who cannot afford such barriers have to put up with the government sneaking around at night.

Judge Kozinski is a leading conservative, appointed by President Ronald Reagan, but in his dissent he came across as a raging liberal. "There's been much talk about diversity on the bench, but there's one kind of diversity that doesn't exist," he wrote. "No truly poor people are appointed as federal judges, or as state judges for that matter." The judges in the majority, he charged, were guilty of "cultural elitism."

...

:mad:
 

Trident1

Less than 1,000 posts away from my free Freeones T-shirt
Meh, I have nothing to hide.
 

pete rose

Tip: install a spycam in your toilet.
Well THIS is surprising!
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
Juan Pineda-Moreno was arrested and convicted of crimes involving the growth of marijuana. The DEA's intuition was correct. He was trying to get off on a technicality like every other convicted felon.
 

PlumpRump

If FreeOnes was a woman, I'd marry her!
I wonder how many people that are outraged by this have a FaceBook account. To be both incensed by this and be a member of FaceBook simultaneously are inherently contradictory as far as personal privacy and the issue of data mining are concerned.

And just because someone came up with a clever retort to the "I have nothing to hide," 'Security vs. Privacy' argument, doesn't invalidate it.
 

Facial_King

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
I wonder how many people that are outraged by this have a FaceBook account. To be both incensed by this and be a member of FaceBook simultaneously are inherently contradictory as far as personal privacy and the issue of data mining are concerned.

And just because someone came up with a clever retort to the "I have nothing to hide," 'Security vs. Privacy' argument, doesn't invalidate it.

Um, that's more than a clever retort - it's a couple of pretty thorough, well-articulated and well-considered arguments, actually.

And I don't see the comparison between the govt. tracking people by GPS and someone voluntarily setting up a FaceBook account.

One is information being extracted secretly, against one's will, the other involves voluntary (even if stupid) sharing of info.

As a matter of fact, though, I don't fall into your gotcha category. I've never had a Facebook (or Myspace, or whatever) account, and don't plan to - for a variety of reasons.
 

Trident1

Less than 1,000 posts away from my free Freeones T-shirt
Well the main issue is tracking Jihadists and their money trail no doubt. To have more security you lose a bit of privacy. This is a different world from 10 years ago and it will be even more different 10 years from now. So get used to it.
 
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PlumpRump

If FreeOnes was a woman, I'd marry her!
Um, that's more than a clever retort - it's a couple of pretty thorough, well-articulated and well-considered arguments, actually.
I just have a certain level of trust in my government, and these arguments are based on the concept that governments are inherently evil and not trustworthy. Difference of opinion, I suppose.

Not to say that I fully agree with the concept of putting GPS units on unsuspecting individuals' cars, but in the only case I've seen of this (i.e. this thread), the government had a reasonable (later founded) suspicion that this person was breaking the law. I find it hard to believe that the average citizen need live in fear of the government putting a GPS tracking system on their car, is all.

The article "debunking" the 'nothing to hide' argument, IMO, seems to be the same kind of fear-mongering that most people deride the government for on a daily basis.

As a matter of fact, though, I don't fall into your gotcha category. I've never had a Facebook (or Myspace, or whatever) account, and don't plan to - for a variety of reasons.
In all seriousness, good on ya' for this. I wasn't specifically referring to you, just wondering about the story and people's reactions to it, in general.
 

1ManRevolution

Life at Freeones is good!
I highly doubt the government will be planting GPS' on every car in America. I am sure they will go after people suspected of a crime. But what do I know, i'm not some wacko tinfoild hate wearer.
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
I'm seriously loling at anyone that tries to justify this. We are truly free.
You aren't free. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

He was convicted of growing marijuana. Had he been innocent, You Might have a case.
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
Marijuana!? Dear god, when you put it that way...

Good. So it's okay to commit felonies. If he hadn't been doing it, they wouldn't have tracked him in the first place.

All of your posts make me :1orglaugh.
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
^^ As usual, you have nothing relevant to add to the conversation.
 

pete rose

Tip: install a spycam in your toilet.
So just bending over and accepting something that is really invasive is alright with you?
 
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