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Syria

Should the U.S intervene in Syria?


  • Total voters
    46

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Maybe you should remember just how successful your military has proven over time before you consider such an action. You need friends.

Hold on... let me call somebody and see how successful they've been. Operator, get me Saddam Hussein on the phone. What? No answer? Well, while I'm holding, connect me up to a fellow by the name of Osama bin Laden. Let's see if he answers...

Don't mistake a war weary American public's affect on how long the military is allowed to remain engaged with how effective our military is. One of our main problems is that we are a soft-hearted people. After we beat someone's ass (even if they deserved it), we then feel the need to drive them to the hospital and even pay their bill.

"Friends" where you always have to pay their way are not friends. They're escorts. IMO, we could do with fewer friends. This shit is getting expensive.


You should also consider that you're not paying to protect other countries, you're paying to support the bloated parasitical military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned you about.

I do agree that it's not solely the fault of these beggar countries - it's really our fault for believing the rhetoric that's meant to convince the sheeple that every military action, from here to Mars, has some direct influence on the safety and security of the United States. Whether it's taking candy from babies or taking money from fools, the "victim" often has to share some of the blame.


I read that the French Leclerc can engage helicopters and fire missiles from it's main cannon but that the M1 can't.

And the average Leclerc probably has fewer scratches on it than a brand new Ferrari setting in a dealer's showroom. But I'd love to see what it can do... on its own. How 'bout me and my Yank brothers watch from a distance this time... on TV? :yesyes:

P.S. To our French posters, that's just me poking fun. No offense intended.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
FUCK!!! I can't rep you for this. The people that own this site need to fix that fucking stupidity ASAP. But anyway, I know you are sort of a firearms enthusiast...I have a WWII French infantry rifle for sale...it's only been dropped once....

Good one! That's a new one on me. :rofl:

Johan and Georges will have to forgive us.
 
There were a number of things leading up to W's administration running off the tracks and the Iraq invasion in '03 was the final act that convinced me he failed as a president.

I'm fairly convinced that Hussein's administration has been run off the tracks by now, but him attacking Syria would make is pretty clear.
 

Mayhem

Banned
A Yes Vote of Conscience for the World's Red Line

John Kerry
U.S. Secretary of State

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johnkerry/syria-red-line-vote-conscience_b_3879304.html#comments


I'm sometimes asked how, as someone who testified 42 years ago against the Vietnam War in which I had fought, I could testify in favor of action to hold the Assad regime accountable today.

The answer is, I spoke my conscience in 1971 and I'm speaking my conscience now in 2013.

Secretary Hagel and I support limited military action against Syrian regime targets not because we've forgotten the lessons and horrors of war -- but because we remember them.

Make no mistake: If another Vietnam or another Iraq were on the table in the Situation Room, I wouldn't be sitting at the witness table before Congress advocating for action.

I spent two years of my life working to stop the war in Vietnam, and made enemies and lost friends because of my decision to speak my mind.

So I don't come to my view on the use of military force anywhere without real reflection. I do so with an eye towards facts and reason.

I am informed by Vietnam, not imprisoned by it. And I am informed by Iraq, not imprisoned by it, either.

The faulty intelligence of the Iraq War was a legacy burned into all of us who present the case for action in Syria to the Congress: It has made us press with extra urgency to know that we are highly confident of what we speak now.

For me and for Chuck Hagel, who voted once before on an intelligence case that turned out not to be true -- and regretted it deeply -- we would never put any Member of Congress in that same position today, period.

I understand the temptation to remember Vietnam and Iraq and reflexively paint any subsequent possible military action with the same brush.

But to do so ignores what Syria is, and what it isn't.

There will be no boots on the ground in Syria. There will be no open-ended commitment. There will be no assuming responsibility for another country's civil war.

These and other differences with Iraq are the exact reasons why many members of Congress who opposed that war and voted against it are supporting this action against Syria today.

So what is Syria? It would be a tailored action to make clear that the world will not stand by and allow the international norm against the use of chemical weapons to be violated with impunity by a brutal dictator willing to gas hundreds of children to death while they sleep. Our action would be a limited and targeted military action, against military targets in Syria, designed to deter Syria's use of chemical weapons and degrade the Assad regime's capabilities to use or transfer such weapons in the future.

So what's at stake here that caused the President to come to the Congress and ask Congress to authorize action?

Those of us who believe in the international order and believe in efforts to ensure that certain international norms against chemical weapons are respected -- we have much at stake in this debate.

For nearly 100 years, the world has stood up for an international norm against the use of chemical weapons.

There's a reason why the United States joined the Geneva Conventions. There's a reason why the United States and 98 percent of the world are signatories to the Chemical Weapons Convention. The reason is this: our nation is safer when these norms are strong. Our interests are protected when these weapons cease to exist. Our allies and partners are protected when these threats are reduced.

The world agrees with us: chemical weapons were used in east Damascus on August 21st. Dozens of countries or organizations around the world acknowledge the use of chemical weapons in Syria, and of those, many have said so publicly. Many countries or organizations have also stated in public or in private that the Assad regime is responsible. And we continue building support around the world every day.

As part of that effort, this weekend I will meet with European Foreign Ministers in Vilnius, Lithuania, where I will continue to lay out the evidence we have collected and seek to broaden support for a limited military response to deter the Assad regime from launching another chemical weapons attack.

Let me be clear: I have no doubt that Assad will use chemical weapons again and again unless we take action.

I have no doubt that we will never get to the negotiating table for the peace talks we have pushed for if Assad believes he can gas his way out of his predicament, just as we'd never have gotten to the peace talks that lead to the Dayton Accords if military action hadn't been part of the equation.

I have no doubt that if we look the other way, we risk not only Assad's repeated use of chemical weapons within Syria, but downstream consequences for our allies and friends in the region including Israel, Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq.

When I hear firsthand about panicked parents in Israel rushing to buy gas masks for their children, I am reminded of so many who live so close to Assad's reign of terror.

And I have no doubt that for anyone who wants to see a diplomatic solution to two of the world's most pressing proliferation challenges -- Iran and North Korea -- ask yourselves: Are these two countries more or less likely to plunge ahead with proliferation and provocation if they see Assad's actions go unanswered? I would argue that we all know the answer to this question: They are more likely to do so.

The costs of inaction here are much greater than the costs of action.

Some people have asked why we would consider acting without the backing of the United Nations Security Council.

It's the same reason that President Clinton in Kosovo did not bind his conscience to a Russian or Chinese veto in New York: In Kosovo, without a single American combat casualty, countries of conscience acted and the world is a better place because we did.

It was the right thing to do then, and it is the right thing to do now.

We already know who used chemical weapons. We know when they were used and how they were used. We wish the United Nations today were in a position to defend these norms rather than being blocked from acting by Russian and Chinese obstruction -- because we believe in the institution.

But we also believe in the principle that we cannot turn our backs and say there's nothing we can do. We cannot allow these weapons to be used to slaughter innocents with impunity.

This is a vote of conscience. And I know that the same reasons that compelled me to join the United States Navy and serve, and the same reasons that compelled me to speak out against the war in which I'd fought, tell me now that the cause of conscience and conviction is the cause for action in Syria.
 
Let's send more humanitarian aid to the refugee camps and let's join Sweden in offering blanket asylum to all Syrian refugees. Launching a military strike isn't the only way the U.S can help Syrians
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Let's send more humanitarian aid to the refugee camps and let's join Sweden in offering blanket asylum to all Syrian refugees. Launching a military strike isn't the only way the U.S can help Syrians

I agree there are other ways to help, but bringing more homeless, jobless people to a country that has more then enough of it's own in that situation, doesn't seem to me, to be the best way.
 
I agree there are other ways to help, but bringing more homeless, jobless people to a country that has more then enough of it's own in that situation, doesn't seem to me, to be the best way.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

That's a beautiful, and noble sentiment...unfortunately, the company that used to print that stuff out, was moved to Mexico, and the tech support out sourced to India. Maybe our leaders should have been working on fixing that, before fixing this.

Putting all else aside, how do we keep the terrorists from infiltrating the refugees, and getting into this country? Sorry, I could never get on board with your idea.
 
That's a beautiful, and noble sentiment...unfortunately, the company that used to print that stuff out, was moved to Mexico, and the tech support out sourced to India. Maybe our leaders should have been working on fixing that, before fixing this.

Putting all else aside, how do we keep the terrorists from infiltrating the refugees, and getting into this country? Sorry, I could never get on board with your idea.

Huh? you know that quote is from the Statue of Liberty right?
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I agree there are other ways to help, but bringing more homeless, jobless people to a country that has more then enough of it's own in that situation, doesn't seem to me, to be the best way.

I totally agree. We tried this with the Cuban refugees back in the early 80's. The Mariel boatlift dumped about 125,000 Cubans on the shores of America. And it was one of the biggest clusterfucks this nation has ever seen, from a social, economic and crime standpoint.

It's a nice thought with good intentions. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Where exactly would the billions come from to do this? New Orleans and parts of New Jersey still look like war zones and yet we'd find the money to do this??? Where would we settle all of these people? Where would we house them? How would we deal with the fact that not all of these various religious and tribal groups from that region get along with each other, and quite a few of them have no great love for the United States of America either???

As I said before, I don't see our European "allies" tripping over each other to step up to the plate on this one. And while we're at it, have the Japanese (conveniently) written something into their constitution over the past week or so that prevents them from providing humanitarian aid to other countries? And most especially, what about all the surrounding Arab countries???!!! IMO, we need to get an unlisted number and unhook the Bat Phone.
 
Hold on... let me call somebody and see how successful they've been. Operator, get me Saddam Hussein on the phone. What? No answer? Well, while I'm holding, connect me up to a fellow by the name of Osama bin Laden. Let's see if he answers...

Don't mistake a war weary American public's affect on how long the military is allowed to remain engaged with how effective our military is. One of our main problems is that we are a soft-hearted people. After we beat someone's ass (even if they deserved it), we then feel the need to drive them to the hospital and even pay their bill.

"Friends" where you always have to pay their way are not friends. They're escorts. IMO, we could do with fewer friends. This shit is getting expensive.




I do agree that it's not solely the fault of these beggar countries - it's really our fault for believing the rhetoric that's meant to convince the sheeple that every military action, from here to Mars, has some direct influence on the safety and security of the United States. Whether it's taking candy from babies or taking money from fools, the "victim" often has to share some of the blame.




And the average Leclerc probably has fewer scratches on it than a brand new Ferrari setting in a dealer's showroom. But I'd love to see what it can do... on its own. How 'bout me and my Yank brothers watch from a distance this time... on TV? :yesyes:

P.S. To our French posters, that's just me poking fun. No offense intended.
Oh, you managed two Mid-Eastern men with international assistance? Only one of them a dictator? Well then hold on while I piss myself laughing... By which I mean change my tune.
Your post is so weak I feel no need to respond further.
[/quote]
 
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

At but you see, the tired, poor, huddled masses that yearn to BREATHE FREE.

Those are few and far in between. VAST majority of the ones we take in these days are the criminals, the lazy, the sluggards looking for a handout.

I am 1000% in favor of immigration but before we do that, we need to eliminate all the freebies that attract the bottom of the barrel here and instead learn to attract the ones who have the same ideas of freedom and self-governance that this nation's founders did. Currently we're importing parasites and misery upon ourselves. We should have strict standards on what type of people are let in - no matter where they are from. They should have to produce a treatise on governmental institutions, corruption, economic freedom and self sustenance. They should demonstrate a high level of literacy and a deep understanding of what makes a society free, strong, and self-reliant. People like that are what made this nation and what will sustain this nation. Not gangbangers and criminal filth we currently import in the guise of 'compassion'.


Meanwhile, we need to stay our of Syria. Let them clear this mess out - Assad has done NOTHING even close to the level of Saddam yet all liberals screeched about the Iraq war (which I opposed too btw). Where are those liberals now? Why is this war justified because Obama is asking for it? Further there is a lot of evidence that the 'rebels' are the evil ones here..why are we arming them now? Most of all, we got enough dying and hungry here at home that we need to care for.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Oh, you managed two Mid-Eastern men with international assistance? Only one of them a dictator? Well then hold on while I piss myself laughing... By which I mean change my tune.
Your post is so weak I feel no need to respond further.

Ah, don't be like that, Hehehehahahyena! Come on now. I'm not trying to tear down our brave and capable allies. I want them to show the world what amazing warriors they really are. And the best way to do that is for them to strap on their armor, grab their swords and go do some fightin'.... all by themselves. As long as the 82nd Airborne is within 100 miles of the action, there will always be whispers that the U.S. delivered the knockout punch. So let's put a stop to those nasty rumors. You fellows are free to give us daily updates on how things are going. But every little bird has to leave the nest at some point. And this seems to me to be the perfect time for our Euro, Asian and Middle Eastern "friends" to jump into the wild, blue yonder and earn their wings. :wave:
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Huh? you know that quote is from the Statue of Liberty right?

Yes...where all of the immigrants used to have to enter the US...where MY FAMILY entered in the very early 1900's. My point was, back then, there were jobs, and the US was still on the rise, now it's not. Back then, people wanted to come here for a better life, now, they want to come here to commit crimes, and destroy us.

WE ARE FULL.
 
Ah, don't be like that, Hehehehahahyena! Come on now. I'm not trying to tear down our brave and capable allies. I want them to show the world what amazing warriors they really are. And the best way to do that is for them to strap on their armor, grab their swords and go do some fightin'.... all by themselves. As long as the 82nd Airborne is within 100 miles of the action, there will always be whispers that the U.S. delivered the knockout punch. So let's put a stop to those nasty rumors. You fellows are free to give us daily updates on how things are going. But every little bird has to leave the nest at some point. And this seems to me to be the perfect time for our Euro, Asian and Middle Eastern "friends" to jump into the wild, blue yonder and earn their wings. :wave:
Seems good to me.
 
No way. I find it amusing though. John Kerry comes out and says that Assad used chemical weapons and shows images of dead children. But the administration is not publicly disclosing that little thing called "evidence".

You could've killed them, I could've killed them - how would anyone know? Of course the administration would believe a bunch of "rebels" who execute Christians and other innocents.

What's worse? The devil you know or the devil you don't know?
 

Mayhem

Banned
Syria Destroyed All Of Its Declared Chemical Weapons Production And Mixing Facilities, Watchdog Says

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ons-destroyed_n_4180306.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Syria has destroyed all of its declared chemical weapons production and mixing facilities, meeting a major deadline in an ambitious disarmament programme, the international chemical weapons watchdog said in a document seen by Reuters.

The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons said in the document its teams had inspected 21 out of 23 chemical weapons sites across the country. The other two were too dangerous to inspect but the chemical equipment had already been moved to other sites which experts had visited, it said.

"The OPCW is satisfied it has verified, and seen destroyed, all declared critical production/mixing/filling equipment from all 23 sites," the document said.

Under a Russian-American brokered deal, Damascus agreed to destroy all its chemical weapons after Washington threatened to use force in response to the killing of hundreds of people in a sarin attack on the outskirts of Damascus on Aug. 21.

The United States and its allies blamed Assad's forces for the attack and several earlier incidents. The Syrian president has rejected the charge, blaming rebel brigades.

Under the disarmament timetable, Syria was due to render unusable all production and chemical weapons filling facilities by Nov. 1 - a target it has now met. By mid-2014 it must have destroyed its entire stockpile of chemical weapons.
 
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