Christian History of Denial and Misinformation

[dreschi]

Actually, there are no rules of evidence here. He failed to discredit the quote but declared it a fake. In my line of work, that is when expert witnesses come in to the picture. But being that this is not a court room, I can contend anything I want. Leave such tedious matters as rules of evidence and where they are applicable up to people that actually understand such things, you are obviously not one of them.

Obviously. I dared to challenge what you wrote, and so, obviously, I have no understanding.

But seriously, rules of evidence are not limited to courtrooms. They are also applicable to scientific or philosophic discussions, and I actually can't see how they would be inappropriate even here.

You can, of course, contend anything you want. But if you want to convince someone, backing up your claims with evidence never hurts. I'm sure we can at least agree upon that.

That having been said, I tend to agree with you that declaring a quote a fake is taking it one step further than merely saying that there is no evidence. If you declare a quote a fake, you are implying that someone faked it, and that, in turn, would be a claim that needs evidence to back it up. Then again, we are not in a courtroom here, are we?

 

[Jack Davenport]

Obviously. I dared to challenge what you wrote, and so, obviously, I have no understanding.

But seriously, rules of evidence are not limited to courtrooms. They are also applicable to scientific or philosophic discussions, and I actually can't see how they would be inappropriate even here.

You can, of course, contend anything you want. But if you want to convince someone, backing up your claims with evidence never hurts. I'm sure we can at least agree upon that.

That having been said, I tend to agree with you that declaring a quote a fake is taking it one step further than merely saying that there is no evidence. If you declare a quote a fake, you are implying that someone faked it, and that, in turn, would be a claim that needs evidence to back it up. Then again, we are not in a courtroom here, are we?

You would think so at times. Anyway, you raised a good point, if I am going to say something is a "fake" I want something other than a citation from an internet source. Which was my point.

It certainly is not beyond reason that Jarrett would make such a statement, judging by her other remarks iin the past.

You seem reasonable. You should post more.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

Well thank you very much for mentioning that. Belgium has 6% muslims. 25% (!) of people living in Brussels are muslim, in Flanders about 4%. Last time I checked every state in the US apart from Arkansas and New York (both 2%) has less then 1% muslims living there. Yeah we are really living under Shariah Law now, we're screwed man! Interestingly enough most people over here seem to realize not every muslim is a terrorist, and most muslims seem to be very happy with the rights they have and couldn't care less about shariah law. It's a miracle!

If you are talking about Belgistan, you must be really naive. They couldn't care less about Shariah law? Shall i link you the declarations of any Belgium muslim politician? Are you really so naive to think that the young generation of Belgium muslims will not vote for the cause in the next decades?

Interesting. Islam was introduced in the USA by christians who brought slaves into the country, dumbass.

If we wanna talk countries, Belgium's skills when it comes to slavery and genocide are second only to Nazi Germany and only by few thousands deaths.
If we wanna talk religion, none throughout history has enslaved as many people as Islam and modern slavery is prominent in Islamic countries, not in Christian ones.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/18/map-the-worlds-36-million-slaves/

Associating slavery to Christianity and adducing it as the reason for Islam expansion is part of the history of denial and misinformation, but not by Christianity.

 

[Rattrap]

Man I'm really getting tired of your stupidity and attempts of baiting BC. really, look for help. Frankly this discussion was already over three days ago.

I remain appreciative of your efforts, but it's already pretty well established that facts and evidence don't inform BC's worldview. Someone like that is de facto unreasonable. It's a wasted effort.

Sorry, but the burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove.

See above.

Actually, there are no rules of evidence here. He failed to discredit the quote but declared it a fake. In my line of work, that is when expert witnesses come in to the picture. But being that this is not a court room, I can contend anything I want. Leave such tedious matters as rules of evidence and where they are applicable up to people that actually understand such things, you are obviously not one of them.

I used to wonder how, given BC's dismissal of evidence, he could be any good at his job. But I was making the mistake thinking lawyers were concerned with evidence; that's the job of other folks in the courtroom. The lawyer's job is bullshit (which, to be fair, isn't necessarily exclusive from truth - simply apathetic). Once I realized that, I'm pretty confident BC is very good at his job.

This thread is yet another example of the man refusing to change his predefined notions when presented facts that show his notions to be wrong. I'd catalogue a list, because there's at least a few prominent examples on this board, but to be honest I don't care that much. I've quoted his post here for his actual dismissal of evidence in these conversations.

If we wanna talk religion, none throughout history has enslaved as many people as Islam and modern slavery is prominent in Islamic countries, not in Christian ones.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/18/map-the-worlds-36-million-slaves/

Associating slavery to Christianity and adducing it as the reason for Islam expansion is part of the history of denial and misinformation, but not by Christianity.

Hey, remember when I pointed out you have a perception problem? You still do. This is particularly amusing:

...modern slavery is prominent in Islamic countries, not in Christian ones.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/18/map-the-worlds-36-million-slaves/

You say this, and then provide a link showing that not to be true.

Here are but just five examples from your own link that are on the dark side of slavery:
Democratic Republic of the Congo - 80-95% Christian
Central African Republic - 80.3% Christian
Zambia - 97.5% and a constitionally Christain country
Namibia - 80-90% Christian
Botswana - 70% Christian

What you say about this information will be very telling of your character.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

What the fuck it has to do with if and whom posts on this board? Are you suggesting that the title is misleading? Enlighten me please.

Huh? It's a response to your comment "Never a thread or an attack to the akbar muslims. You guys certainly don't lack in courage [...] etc." Well, if a muslim starts to post his or her religious opinions on this board, I will respond just the same. Your comment makes me think of something though. Why is it that we always have threads that bring out the negative in us? We can be sure we'll have heated discussions when someone (whether it's you or me) creates a thread about basically anything about the bible. Why is there never a thread about - as you pointed out correctly - the influence on culture, about books written by monks and the influence on the arts...

If you are talking about Belgistan, you must be really naive. They couldn't care less about Shariah law? Shall i link you the declarations of any Belgium muslim politician? Are you really so naive to think that the young generation of Belgium muslims will not vote for the cause in the next decades?

We have quite some muslim politicians and I invite you to visit all of their profiles and declarations. You may notice most of them are the regular John or Jane Doe (or Mustafah and Amina if you prefer). I'm assuming that with 'any' you are actually refering to particular politicians who got elected in the municipal elections in Brussels a couple of years ago and who stated they wanted to implement shariah law. And that's as far as it got: a statement. I hope you also did read about the petition against them, with support from other muslims.

Are you really so naive to think that the young generation of Belgium muslims will not vote for the cause in the next decades?

No one can predict the future. Not even BC. But when it comes to the young generation I can be quite sure this will not be very likely for a multitude of reasons. One of these reasons is that these youngsters are growing up in a western environment where they wear make-up, jeans, a bikini on the beach, they might smoke and or drink, etc. Lots of them can be compared to the moderate christians in that sence that they hardly know what's in the Quran. These youngsters are just as scared of what happens because of ISIS as the rest of us, although they are passionate when it comes to Israel. And all of who I ever talked to in my life always had a good laugh about sharia law. There are always exceptions and even in Belgium we had youngsters who went to fight with ISIS. But exceptions are not the rule. It's actually the elder people who are more strict, but not the youngsters. So, that's one of the reasons.

If we wanna talk countries, Belgium's skills when it comes to slavery and genocide are second only to Nazi Germany and only by few thousands deaths.

Absolutely correct. I don't know if it's second to Nazi Germany, but that's not even relevant to know, I assume you are correct. Thousands and thousands of people died in Congo and it's a black stain on our history.

If we wanna talk religion, none throughout history has enslaved as many people as Islam and modern slavery is prominent in Islamic countries, not in Christian ones.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/18/map-the-worlds-36-million-slaves/
Associating slavery to Christianity and adducing it as the reason for Islam expansion is part of the history of denial and misinformation, but not by Christianity.

Huh? I think you misinterpreted my statement. BC's claim is that nutjobs like me (secular atheists) are purposefully deluting the US culture by having muslims immigrate the US. And this is an attempt to get rid of Christianity (as he states in a earlier post). Funny that you don't react to this bullshit statement. But when I remind him that it's christians who introduced islam in the US because they had slaves, you go berserk claiming that I associate slavery with christianity and adduce it as a reason for Islam expension?

you said it was false, it has not been proven false.

It has not been proven true either. And even if it would be proven true, you still have nothing to back up your claim, but just someone saying something that matches your assumption.

I tend to agree with you that declaring a quote a fake is taking it one step further than merely saying that there is no evidence.

Actually, it's quite reasonable to say the quote is a fake, although I indeed have no evidence to call it a fake. There is no information to be found, no context, no document, no report, nothing. Just a meme. If BC can present this quote without evidence and claim it to be true, I can dismiss this quote without evidence and claim it to be false. If BC wants me to proove it's false, I want BC to proove it's true.

You are correct, the burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove.

You have spent the past 3 days trying to disprove my assertion

And so far you have spent 3 days just making assumptions, and not prove anything.

[...] Anyway, you raised a good point, if I am going to say something is a "fake" I want something other than a citation from an internet source. Which was my point.

Exactly BC. I want something else then a meme as well. Evidence for your claim, some data and information, not a quote of something that 'sounds reasonable judging by'. So far you have presented nothing but an assumption (and a meme).

You have spent the past 3 days trying to disprove my assertion that Islam's goal is to dominate the world and American society [...$

Oooooh, I see what you did there. Nice try BC.

So this is your position:

In the US christianity is on it's way to being a minority faith.
Secular atheists are going to finish off christianity
(Then) millions of muslism are going to migrate to the US
Then at least two muslim supreme court justices are going to be confirmed.
They will overturn all the 'cultural victories' the left enjoys.
All this will take about 20 years.

While you're at it:

Some movement exist to social engineer the military and as a result thereof a Jihadist killed 12 at Ft. Hood (post #22)
Every Muslim that enters the US either believe in the Qur'an to the letter or worse feel that jihad is justified and half want Sharia Law in the US (post #27)
Secular atheists are purposefully having muslims immigrate the US (post #26)
The left seeks to change the political climate through immigration to increase their voter base (post #27)

Evidence! Got for it!

 

[Jack Davenport]

very[/i] good at his job.

This thread is yet another example of the man refusing to change his predefined notions when presented facts that show his notions to be wrong. I'd catalogue a list, because there's at least a few prominent examples on this board, but to be honest I don't care that much. I've quoted his post here for his actual dismissal of evidence in these conversations.


Hey, remember when I pointed out you have a perception problem? You still do. This is particularly amusing:

You say this, and then provide a link showing that not to be true.

Here are but just five examples from your own link that are on the dark side of slavery:
Democratic Republic of the Congo - 80-95% Christian
Central African Republic - 80.3% Christian
Zambia - 97.5% and a constitionally Christain country
Namibia - 80-90% Christian
Botswana - 70% Christian

What you say about this information will be very telling of your character.

In light of Obama's turn to the left that would make Juan Pablo Montoya envious, 300 Muslims entering our country every day, 1200 illegal Mexicans every day, silence on illegals killing Americans, telling us that they complicate nuclear negotiations with including hostages, while releasing a scientist and we get no one in return, making the White House a light show that would rival a Pink Floyd concert phone calls to Sandra Fluke when a mean talk show host calls her a slut, no calls to families when Marines are killed by the Kuwaiti redneck, Michael Sam is a hero, Major Garrett is out of line, Jeremiah Wright is a spiritual advisor, Franklin Graham is an antagonist, Israel are oppressors, The Muslim Brotherhood are centrists,Benghazi is a reaction to a budding filmmaker, silence on Planned Parenthood selling baby parts, vocal on bitter clingers, government controls of urban communities, forcing churches to provide contraception, dismantling healthcare and doubling premiums,cash for clunkers, cap and trade,higher electric bills in the name of green initiatives, climate change is the greatest threat to mankind, while ISIS are the JV Team and Iran has an ICBM within 10 years, telling school kids what they can eat, increasing the food stamp rolls, Trayvon is my son, Steinle never happened, sue Arizona, let sanctuary cities slide, half staff flags for Newtown,twist his arm for Chattanooga, bow to Saudi kings, thumb his nose to Netanyahu, hard on for soccer, declaw the NFL,play golf and fundraise while parents are mourning, Lois Kerner emails missing, thousands of weapons to Mexico, representatives to the funeral of Brown, Gray and Martin, crickets when a young girl is killed by an illegal, Dinesh Desouza does time, Al Sharpton's taxes remain unpaid, Navy " Corpseman" cops acting stupidly, black lives matter, elections have consequences,a pen and a phone,Charleston is a hate crime,Chattanooga is a lone gunman,radical Islam is a figment of our imaginations, Christians have done terrible deeds in the name of Christ, Solyndra, is the wave of the future, no fence on the border, spikes on the White House gates, observe Ramadan, Christmas is just another holiday, Cuba is our friend, Russian bombers buzzing our coastline but the 80's wants its foreign policy back..

Yep, I have one twisted worldview, . I mean this in the nicest way possible, you sir, are a god damned fool.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

I remain appreciative of your efforts, but it's already pretty well established that facts and evidence don't inform BC's worldview. Someone like that is de facto unreasonable. It's a wasted effort.

Yeah I might as well debate a christian.

Oh, wait...

 

[Jack Davenport]

Huh? It's a response to your comment "Never a thread or an attack to the akbar muslims. You guys certainly don't lack in courage [...] etc." Well, if a muslim starts to post his or her religious opinions on this board, I will respond just the same. Your comment makes me think of something though. Why is it that we always have threads that bring out the negative in us? We can be sure we'll have heated discussions when someone (whether it's you or me) creates a thread about basically anything about the bible. Why is there never a thread about - as you pointed out correctly - the influence on culture, about books written by monks and the influence on the arts...



We have quite some muslim politicians and I invite you to visit all of their profiles and declarations. You may notice most of them are the regular John or Jane Doe (or Mustafah and Amina if you prefer). I'm assuming that with 'any' you are actually refering to particular politicians who got elected in the municipal elections in Brussels a couple of years ago and who stated they wanted to implement shariah law. And that's as far as it got: a statement. I hope you also did read about the petition against them, with support from other muslims.



No one can predict the future. Not even BC. But when it comes to the young generation I can be quite sure this will not be very likely for a multitude of reasons. One of these reasons is that these youngsters are growing up in a western environment where they wear make-up, jeans, a bikini on the beach, they might smoke and or drink, etc. Lots of them can be compared to the moderate christians in that sence that they hardly know what's in the Quran. These youngsters are just as scared of what happens because of ISIS as the rest of us, although they are passionate when it comes to Israel. And all of who I ever talked to in my life always had a good laugh about sharia law. There are always exceptions and even in Belgium we had youngsters who went to fight with ISIS. But exceptions are not the rule. It's actually the elder people who are more strict, but not the youngsters. So, that's one of the reasons.



Absolutely correct. I don't know if it's second to Nazi Germany, but that's not even relevant to know, I assume you are correct. Thousands and thousands of people died in Congo and it's a black stain on our history.



Huh? I think you misinterpreted my statement. BC's claim is that nutjobs like me (secular atheists) are purposefully deluting the US culture by having muslims immigrate the US. And this is an attempt to get rid of Christianity (as he states in a earlier post). Funny that you don't react to this bullshit statement. But when I remind him that it's christians who introduced islam in the US because they had slaves, you go berserk claiming that I associate slavery with christianity and adduce it as a reason for Islam expension?



It has not been proven true either. And even if it would be proven true, you still have nothing to back up your claim, but just someone saying something that matches your assumption.



Actually, it's quite reasonable to say the quote is a fake, although I indeed have no evidence to call it a fake. There is no information to be found, no context, no document, no report, nothing. Just a meme. If BC can present this quote without evidence and claim it to be true, I can dismiss this quote without evidence and claim it to be false. If BC wants me to proove it's false, I want BC to proove it's true.

You are correct, the burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove.



And so far you have spent 3 days just making assumptions, and not prove anything.



Exactly BC. I want something else then a meme as well. Evidence for your claim, some data and information, not a quote of something that 'sounds reasonable judging by'. So far you have presented nothing but an assumption (and a meme).



Oooooh, I see what you did there. Nice try BC.

So this is your position:

In the US christianity is on it's way to being a minority faith.
Secular atheists are going to finish off christianity
(Then) millions of muslism are going to migrate to the US
Then at least two muslim supreme court justices are going to be confirmed.
They will overturn all the 'cultural victories' the left enjoys.
All this will take about 20 years.

While you're at it:

Some movement exist to social engineer the military and as a result thereof a Jihadist killed 12 at Ft. Hood (post #22)
Every Muslim that enters the US either believe in the Qur'an to the letter or worse feel that jihad is justified and half want Sharia Law in the US (post #27)
Secular atheists are purposefully having muslims immigrate the US (post #26)
The left seeks to change the political climate through immigration to increase their voter base (post #27)

Evidence! Got for it!

.

Yep, and it is happening before our very eyes, those of us that can see. There are two parties that play a role in all of this, the ones that underhandedly forward the agenda and mastermind it and all the while telling us that we are imagining shit or overreacting, and the fools that buy into it. I hate the former and pity the latter. Consider yourself pitied and a fool.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

.

Yep, and it is happening before our very eyes, those of us that can see. There are two parties that play a role in all of this, the ones that underhandedly forward the agenda and mastermind it and all the while telling us that we are imagining shit or overreacting, and the fools that buy into it. I hate the former and pity the latter. Consider yourself pitied and a fool.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Yeah,
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...o-swell-u-s-muslim-population-to-6-2-million/

A diametrically opposed religion to Christianity and Judaism. They have no right to just immigrate here and they are coming in by droves. The ONLY way that Islam becomes a mainstream religion in this country is to introduce the kind of numbers through immigration because it would not happen through natural born Muslim citizens.
Now for more imagined Obama conspiracy theories:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...o-impose-his-vision-of-how-we-should-live.php

This is an attempt to control neighborhoods and their makeup at the local level just another example of Marxist agenda. This is a plan that Obama would not breath a hint of until after the recent elections. This one is a big deal and people are noticing and will become a huge campaign issue and Hillary Clinton cannot defend it, in fact, no Democrat can Now you don't know about this and if you say you do you are lying because not even many low information Democrat voters are aware of it.

This is one issue if Republicans push it that can guarantee victory in 2016.

Yeah, I am just a paranoid tin foil hat wearer.

Mind your own fucked up country.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

Yeah,
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...o-swell-u-s-muslim-population-to-6-2-million/

A diametrically opposed religion to Christianity and Judaism. They have no right to just immigrate here and they are coming in by droves. The ONLY way that Islam becomes a mainstream religion in this country is to introduce the kind of numbers through immigration because it would not happen through natural born Muslim citizens.
Now for more imagined Obama conspiracy theories:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...o-impose-his-vision-of-how-we-should-live.php

This is an attempt to control neighborhoods and their makeup at the local level just another example of Marxist agenda. This is a plan that Obama would not breath a hint of until after the recent elections. This one is a big deal and people are noticing and will become a huge campaign issue and Hillary Clinton cannot defend it, in fact, no Democrat can Now you don't know about this and if you say you do you are lying because not even many low information Democrat voters are aware of it.

This is one issue if Republicans push it that can guarantee victory in 2016.

Yeah, I am just a paranoid tin foil hat wearer.

Mind your own fucked up country.

A page error 404 and a blog stating an opinion of the blogger... Seriously? I should have known from the start what a pathetic lowlife racist scum you are.

Discussion is over shitbag.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

Ok, too much material to go through. I must ask a very clear straight question here: today, and i mean today, not yesterday: giving that you guys seem to be all atheist and bla bala bla....
...pick between muslims and christians.
No other chances, no if, what and whatever,


Pick between Islam and Christianity please.

Can you honestly do that ? Can you pick one and explain why? Take side imagining you forced to and explain us why you privileged one over the other.

 

[Rattrap]

Ok, too much material to go through. I must ask a very clear straight question here...

Ooof, I sense a chickenshit copout. Please don't pull a chickenshit copout. That's BC's territory.

You said (emphasis added):

...modern slavery is prominent in Islamic countries, not in Christian ones.

You then provided this link, which shows your own statement is false:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/18/map-the-worlds-36-million-slaves/

Here are but just five examples from your own link that are on the dark side of slavery:
Democratic Republic of the Congo - 80-95% Christian
Central African Republic - 80.3% Christian
Zambia - 97.5% and a constitionally Christain country
Namibia - 80-90% Christian
Botswana - 70% Christian

What you say about this information will be very telling of your character.

Process that and I'll get to your question.

 

[Jack Davenport]

A page error 404 and a blog stating an opinion of the blogger... Seriously? I should have known from the start what a pathetic lowlife racist scum you are.

Discussion is over shitbag.

Islam isn't a race, fuckstick

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

I think the real racists are people like fuckstick who assume all muslims are Arabs. Or that all Arabs are muslim. Shame on you, fuckstick!

 

[GodsEmbryo]

I think the real racists are people like fuckstick who assume all muslims are Arabs. Or that all Arabs are muslim. Shame on you, fuckstick!

Yeah, especially when fuckstick describes them as the "brown people"

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

Even I can tell that "brown people" in the otro fuckstick's post was sarcastic/ironic.

 

[dreschi]

...pick between muslims and christians.
No other chances, no if, what and whatever,

Pick between Islam and Christianity please.

I don't mean to be nitpicking, but there is a difference between having to pick between Islam and Christianity, or having to pick between Muslims and Christians.

If I have to pick between Islam and Christianity, I would have to know more about them and their actual teachings. I mean, I did have to go to Bible classes, but that still does not make me an expert on Christianity. And I have never read even parts of the Q'ran or anything else what Islamic scholars have written. (Oh, and please don't hold that against me - freedom of religion also means freedom from religion if you're so inclined.) In any case, based on what I have gathered, I guess I would have to pick Christianity because the individual person seems to matter more than in Islam. But anyhow, from what little I have gathered about Judaism, I guess that would even be my first preference because somewhere I read that, according to Jewish faith, you can go to heaven even if you've been a non-believer, as long as you've been a decent person. That is far more generous than Christianity or Islam. But I don't know if it's actually true that Judaism is that generous.

But I guess you actually meant would I prefer to live in a Christian country or a Muslim country right here, right now? The answer to that should be obvious, and the reason for that should be obvious as well. Although, just to be sure, I'd pick a Christian country that is part of the West. Better chances of not being enslaved, you know.

On a side note, if practicing Christians can do porn, gimme the Christians.

 

[xfire]

GodsEmbryo has been on an ass kicking campaign, nice work, GodsEmbryo, I would rep you if the system would let me.

As to Sabrina's question, choose between Islam and Christianity, that's an easy pick. I'll go with Christianity, historically there's as much blood on Christian hands as there is on Islamic hands, but I've never been ordered to convert to Christianity or die and forced conversion is a reality for many people who live in areas dominated by Islam.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

GodsEmbryo has been on an ass kicking campaign, nice work, GodsEmbryo, I would rep you if the system would let me.

As to Sabrina's question, choose between Islam and Christianity, that's an easy pick. I'll go with Christianity, historically there's as much blood on Christian hands as there is on Islamic hands, but I've never been ordered to convert to Christianity or die and forced conversion is a reality for many people who live in areas dominated by Islam.

Ok, i must spread some reputation.
I'm not a radical Christian. In fact i'm a very typical my own way one, but lately attacking Christianity seems to be the worldwide sport, while if somebody dare to say "boo!" about any other religion they are called somethingphobic. It's so not right, that for an anarchic like me it becomes very conflictual to have to back Christianity up.