Why the World Hates America

[Member2019]

Incorrect chronology on Nixon, plus, JFK asssssinated the President of South Vietnam

Nixon opened up trade with China and got South American countries to cooperate with the DEA. Had he completed his second term I believe he would have ended American involvement in Viet Nam.

Actually, he did. The agreement was signed at the beginning of 1973 IIRC, just after his re-election.

What Nixon did not do, and he was not in office for, was to fulfil his private assurance to restart the bombing if the NVA broke the agreement and invaded. Make no mistake, the Linebacker II was the policy the US should have had from Day 1, and it utterly "sacked" the North and utterly deterred them from invading further.

The question has always been, how long would the US be willing to keep up such bombardment? How much would North Vietnam have to be crumbling to get them to stop?

How many of their sons and daughters would have to do die fighting for a cause that was more about decades of French imperialism and their right to self-determination? How much killing by the US, even under strict RoE, would justify preventing the current and even more coming atrocities at the hands of the Vietnamese themselves?

Sometimes the answer is not to be a part of them, sadly enough. Atrocities happened during the French rule and after the US left. They were only exposed more while the US was there, and yet another proof that the US media does a far better job of exposing its own faults that other media does of theirs (especially the French on Vietnam, it's pathetic in comparison, even before we consider Algeris).

The whole Kennedy family is one sad unfunny punchline. The fact that Asshole Ted was their legacy proves the point. JFK's foreign policies were the set up for that joke. The embargo against Cuba, the conflict in Viet Nam, the missile crisis and the only good policy he started IMO was the peace corps.

Most Americans forget that JFK assassinated the President of South Vietnam. I don't care what the justification was, it was actions like that by the US from post-WWII until the '70s that caused Ford to finally sign an executive order against such.

Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton and W. have all had to struggle with the issues of "doing right" v. "the US does not have the right to mess with self-determination." Columbia has been a very interesting example, with US advisors having to "pull out" when their advisement is even tied to affecting the self-determination of a nation in the "War on Drugs." The legal study of post '70s US policy, especially covert, is one of great interest. It's not as simplistic as people make it out to be, and the US Court system has regularly been involved.

 

[marquis2]

Re: Consider ...

How many times have you missed my saying, "key, select, influential French individuals have helped the US throughout its history."

The French government has been against the US throughout its history, including our revolution. They have largely paid limited lip service at times at best, and often used both negative lip service and lack of action in many cases. Thomas Jefferson regularly commented how the people were always individually giving and American-like thinking when it was their own sacrifice, let alone key Frenchmen played an important part in the drafting of US documents. .

Here's a different account;
French military aid was also a decisive factor in the American victory. French land and sea forces fought on the side of the American colonists against the British. At the same time, British and French (and to a lesser extent, Dutch and Spanish) forces fought for colonial wealth and empire around the world. From 1778 through 1783 -- two years after the defeat of Cornwallis at Yorktown -- French forces fought the British in the West Indies, Africa and India.

From the perspective of the American Revolution, however, the high point of French support is the landing of five battalions of French infantry and artillery in Rhode Island in 1780. In 1781, these French troops under the command of Count Rochambeau marched south to Virginia where they joined Continental forces under Washington and Lafayette. Cornwallis, encamped on the Yorktown peninsula, hoped to be rescued by the British navy. A French fleet under the command of Admiral DeGrasse intercepted and, after a fierce battle lasting several days, defeated the British fleet and forced it to withdraw. This left the French navy to land heavy siege cannon and other supplies and trapped Cornwallis on the Yorktown peninsula.

At that point, the defeat of Cornwallis was essentially a matter of time. On September 14, 1781, the French and Continental armies completed their 700 mile march and soon thereafter laid siege to the British positions. After a number of weeks and several brief but intense engagements, Cornwallis, besieged on the peninsula by the large and well-equipped French-American army, and stricken by dysentery, determined to surrender his army. On October 19, 1781, the British forces marched out between the silent ranks of the Americans and French, arrayed in parallel lines a mile long, and cast down their arms.

George Woodbridge summed up the Yorktown campaign in the following words: "The strategy of the campaign was Rochambeau’s; the French fleet was there as a result of his arrangements; the tactics of the battle were his; the American army was present because he had lent money to Washington; in total naval and military participants the French outnumbered the Americans between three and four to one. Yorktown was Rochambeau’s victory.

 

[Member2019]

Did you read what I said?

Here's a different account ...

Apparently you missed my statement ...

"although they did come at a key moment in the south, I will admit that."

In 1781, these French troops under the command of Count Rochambeau ... "The strategy of the campaign was Rochambeau’s; the French fleet was there as a result of his arrangements; the tactics of the battle were his; the American army was present because he had lent money to Washington;

Apparently you have not read what I posted.

I would heavily stress, again, select, key French individuals. We owe a huge, massive debt to many select French citizens. That has always been the case in the US throughout it's history. I have denied that none.

However, the French government's own role has been questionable at best, and almost insulting to some of their own citizens at several points of the American struggle with the British. This includes Rochambeau.

in total naval and military participants the French outnumbered the Americans between three and four to one. Yorktown was Rochambeau’s victory

I do not disagree. Without the French at Yorktown, especially Rochambeau's efforts not merely on the field of battle, but in securing funding, the war would have been far from over for the US. The US had serious issues with funding, as the Dutch would have no part of it (until after the resolution of the conflict). The US may have secured far less favorable terms even if it succeeded in separation in the future on its own.

However, considering the general French monarchy at our revolution, and the post-monarchy governments, it was not uncommon for various military leaders to forge their own policies. Without Rochambeau and several others, the French aid would have been far, far different. Which is why I regularly point out that while the US has been at severe odds with the French government throughout their history, there have always been key, select French citizens who have carried out a belief and love for the US that transcended the utter bullshit policy of the French government.

And that includes the French insistence that the US become a French colony at the conclusion of what we termed was our revolution, in total disrespect for what sacrifices various French citizens were doing for the US. To this day, this cannot be understated. The same with where the Statue of Liberty comes from. It represents the great sacrifices of select, French citizens for the US, and not this blanket bullshit that the French government likes to throw in our face.

Especially when official, French government policies have been so utterly the opposite to the American nation.

 

[donalzombie]

haha...that's an easy question...you see i'm not american and i do find out that a lot of latin people hates the U.S.A. (america is a continent my friend so plz say u.s.a.) or most paople say so...and that's because it's easy to opine that way and 'cause it sounds smart to mediocre people...as a matter of facts i think that the u.s.a. has good things and bad things as EVERY country. sorry if my english isn't good enough

 

[Philbert]

haha...that's an easy question...you see i'm not american and i do find out that a lot of latin people hates the U.S.A. (america is a continent my friend so plz say u.s.a.) or most paople say so...and that's because it's easy to opine that way and 'cause it sounds smart to mediocre people...as a matter of facts i think that the u.s.a. has good things and bad things as EVERY country. sorry if my english isn't good enough

You must mean the ones who haven't come here to live...there are some left, I know. The lights are still on...:rofl:

 

[CADDYMAN]

The US is run by big business that loves to do nothing more than protects its interests.

Examples of this ?

FDA....how the fuck did nutrasweet ever make it into anything that shit is toxic has proven to be toxic and yet you can still buy a diet coke with a slew of it in it.

Airlines......Welfare state of one of the biggest poluters in the us that nobody seems to think is wasting away a good portion of the fuel that could be used in trains to haul goods and people around in.

If i could take a train from Cleveland to say Chicago for a little less money would I ?

FUck yeah and I should be.

Religion is obviously the other reason along with foreign policy

 

[Dean Wormer]

The US is run by big business that loves to do nothing more than protects its interests.

Examples of this ?

FDA....how the fuck did nutrasweet ever make it into anything that shit is toxic has proven to be toxic and yet you can still buy a diet coke with a slew of it in it.

Airlines......Welfare state of one of the biggest poluters in the us that nobody seems to think is wasting away a good portion of the fuel that could be used in trains to haul goods and people around in.

If i could take a train from Cleveland to say Chicago for a little less money would I ?

FUck yeah and I should be.

Religion is obviously the other reason along with foreign policy

Sorry but when I visit my friends in California I like getting there in six hours not four days. I also like getting to Florida in three hours instead of two days. Especially when I've got less than a week off.

 

[slither]

complete power

 

[GabberMan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4er0rZjB0Y

 

[Facetious]

Re: Why the World Hates America

It has to be because of the arrogant attorney assholes that we elect to power.

 

[GabberMan]

It has to be because of the arrogant attorney assholes that we elect to power.

Yeah, we've got some of those as well - in fact the best thing you can be before becoming an MP or a Lord is a barrister. They always seem to be the ones who end up in line when it's votes time. And some of them are just arseholes.