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"Licence to discriminate" bill soon to be passed in Michigan

Michigan House passes religious freedom bill


A bill providing protections for people with sincerely held religious beliefs was put on a fast track Thursday, passing out of the House Judiciary committee and the full House of Representatives on straight party line votes Thursday.

Speaker of the House Jase Bolger, R-Marshall, who sponsored the bill, said the measure will do none of the horrible things opponents claim but will merely protect people and their beliefs and practice of religion.

He cited several examples of protections, from the baker who doesn't want to provide a wedding cake to same-sex marriage couple to the Jewish mother who doesn't want an autopsy on her son who died in a car crash. Both cited religious beliefs as reasons in their cases.

"This is not a license to discriminate," Bolger said. "People simply want their government to allow them to practice their faith in peace."

But opponents said that's exactly what the Religious Freedom Restoration Act is, especially since a companion bill that would have expanded Michigan's civil rights acts to the LGBT community was declared dead by Bolger after a committee couldn't get enough votes to move the bills to the full House on Wednesday.

"The free exercise of religion is one of the most basic principles in our state and federal constitutions," said state Rep. Vicki Barnett, D-Farmington Hills. "This bill moves us in a new and uncharted direction. It requires me and others to practice the faith of our employers, grocers and pharmacists."

Susan Grettenberger, a Central Michigan University professor and social worker, said the religious freedom bill could have seriously harmful consequences, giving an example of a social worker who refused to counsel people based on religious beliefs that didn't support homosexuality.

"Social workers who are opposed to war on religious ground could refuse to serve military members," she said. "If their religion excludes the use of alcohol, they could refuse a client with substance abuse problems."

But constitutional law expert William Wagner, a supporter of the bill, which passed the House on a 59-50 party-line vote, said those examples weren't valid.

"This is about asserting a religious belief against a government action," he said, not between individuals. "The question is, are we still going to be tolerant of religious communities."

And Tom Hickson of the Michigan Catholic Conference, added: "A Michigan Religious Freedom Restoration Act is good for tolerance and diversity, it is good for individual and religious liberties, and it is for the common good of society."

The Michigan Civil Rights Commission, which opposes the bill, wasn't given the opportunity to testify during the committee hearing, but spokeswoman Leslee Fritz said the government action phrase was taken out of portions of the legislation passed by the committee.

"The overwhelming concern we have is the intersection of this legislation and the Elliott Larsen Civil Rights Act," she said. "This legislation would undermine the protections provided in Elliott Larsen."

Amendments offered by Democrats would have required: the law to state clearly that the bill would not interfere with the protections offered by the state's civil rights act; that a person asserting a sincerely held religious belief claim provide proof either through tithing to their church or evidence of community service; or that local communities be allowed to pass their own ordinances.

All the amendments failed and all the Democrats on the committee and in the full House opposed the bill, while all the Republicans supported it.

The bill -- HB 5958 -- now moves to the state Senate, where Majority Leader Randy Richardville, R-Monroe, said his caucus will take a look at the legislation.

The House also passed a separate package of bills, on mostly party-line votes, that would allow adoption agencies to refuse services to people if that violated their sincerely held religious beliefs. Those bills also now move to the Senate.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/05/michigan-religious-freedom-bill/19943521/

Once more religios people are trying to get away with anything because "it's my religion". In the name of religion, they want to be given the right not to follow thofe law.
To me, this kind of legislation is a clear violation of Section 1 of the 14th Amendement to the US Constitution :
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
I'm a devout muslim and according to the Holy Quran and the Hadith, homosexuality is a grievous sin.

Should I be forced to act contrary to my religious beliefs? JOHAN?
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
Once more religios people are trying to get away with anything because "it's my religion".


Americans have religious freedom and freedom.

The government can't come in and tell us how to do things.

Just like businesses that will not serve people without shirts, shoes, and don't allow pets into their buildings.

People that label themselves by a sex act are not special, and are not a culture.


 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Americans have religious freedom and freedom. Americans also have freedom from religion.

The government can't come in and tell us how to do things. LOL....surely you jest, Will!

Just like businesses that will not serve people without shirts, shoes, and don't allow pets into their buildings. These are all certified health hazards, not religious beliefs. Not the same thing.

People that label themselves by a sex act are not special, and are not a culture.

No, they aren't. They are equals and should be treated as such without exception. Johan is correct....the 14th amendment guarantees these rights under the constitution and is the justification for all civil rights legislation that has been enacted since. If you want to be able to discriminate legally, work to get the 14th amendment repealed. If you're a constitutionalist you have to embrace the entire document, not just the parts you like.

I'm a devout muslim and according to the Holy Quran and the Hadith, homosexuality is a grievous sin.

Should I be forced to act contrary to my religious beliefs? JOHAN?

I can't answer for Johan but I can tell you that the answer is yes, you need to obey the laws of the United States if you live in this country. They aren't asking you to suck a dick for chrissakes....just bake them their fucking wedding cake! If you don't like that, move to a country where sharia law is enforced.
 
I can't answer for Johan but I can tell you that the answer is yes, you need to obey the laws of the United States if you live in this country. They aren't asking you to suck a dick for chrissakes....just bake them their fucking wedding cake! If you don't like that, move to a country where sharia law is enforced.

Thank you. And I'm not muslim btw.

Say you own a dry cleaning business and a Ku Klux Klan member came in asking you to clean his mississippi-mud-stained hood and robe (no offense to Mississippi, it just sounded right)? Do those same laws apply?
Would you be obligated to serve that person?
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Thank you. And I'm not muslim btw.

Say you own a dry cleaning business and a Ku Klux Klan member came in asking you to clean his mississippi-mud-stained hood and robe (no offense to Mississippi, it just sounded right)? Do those same laws apply?
Would you be obligated to serve that person?

Under the law, yes. I might piss inside the hood before I run it through the dry-cleaning process though. ;)
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Actually, on second thought, I'd shit in it and then tell him I just couldn't get those dad-gum mud stains out. :D
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
No, they aren't. They are equals and should be treated as such without exception. Johan is correct....the 14th amendment guarantees these rights under the constitution and is the justification for all civil rights legislation that has been enacted since. If you want to be able to discriminate legally, work to get the 14th amendment repealed. If you're a constitutionalist you have to embrace the entire document, not just the parts you like.



I can't answer for Johan but I can tell you that the answer is yes, you need to obey the laws of the United States if you live in this country. They aren't asking you to suck a dick for chrissakes....just bake them their fucking wedding cake! If you don't like that, move to a country where sharia law is enforced.

Yeah, claim you're a Rastafarian....see how fast they extinguish that big ol' fat doobie! Just sayin'.
 
I'm a devout muslim and according to the Holy Quran and the Hadith, homosexuality is a grievous sin.

Should I be forced to act contrary to my religious beliefs? JOHAN?
Define "act contrary to [your] beliefs".


Anyway, I won't discuss Islam 'cause i don't know the religion enough. But I do know christianism enough. Jesus spent his life surrounded by sinners. He stopped the stoning of a prostitute. He ate his Last Super with the very man that he knew had sold him
Did he ever said "Now, those who have sinned, get away from me, you're not worthy enough to hear what I have to say." ? Did he ever ordered sinners to repent ? No, he always treated them with love and compassion. If only christians could do the same, if only they could stop bullying those who do not share their religious beliefs. I thought this kind of behaving was the trademark of Al-Qaida and ISIS, seems like they aren't the ones to think that the laws of God prevail over the laws of men. The only difference is the name of the god...
 
Define "act contrary to [your] beliefs".


Anyway, I won't discuss Islam 'cause i don't know the religion enough. But I do know christianism enough. Jesus spent his life surrounded by sinners. He stopped the stoning of a prostitute. He ate his Last Super with the very man that he knew had sold him
Did he ever said "Now, those who have sinned, get away from me, you're not worthy enough to hear what I have to say." ? Did he ever ordered sinners to repent ? No, he always treated them with love and compassion. If only christians could do the same, if only they could stop bullying those who do not share their religious beliefs. I thought this kind of behaving was the trademark of Al-Qaida and ISIS, seems like they aren't the ones to think that the laws of God prevail over the laws of men. The only difference is the name of the god...

The fuck He didn't. Pardon my french. Read the text.
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
Why do they feel the need to add redundancy to the bill of rights? The freedom of religion is listed first for an important reason. It guarantees that the govt won't establish a state religion or favor one brand over another.

Johan gargles spoo. Why does he care so much about a country he appears to hate? He should focus his anger at his own fucked up country.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
No, they aren't. They are equals and should be treated as such without exception. Johan is correct....the 14th amendment guarantees these rights under the constitution and is the justification for all civil rights legislation that has been enacted since. If you want to be able to discriminate legally, work to get the 14th amendment repealed. If you're a constitutionalist you have to embrace the entire document, not just the parts you like.

No, they want special rights and protects.

They want to force everyone to accept them.

Not going to happen.
 
Johan gargles spoo. Why does he care so much about a country he appears to hate? He should focus his anger at his own fucked up country.
Because I use to love it. And I still do. I still think it has the potential to be the most awesome country in the world but it is not taking the right path, the path that would lead it to that.
 

Rachael Madori

Official Checked Star Member
Define "act contrary to [your] beliefs".


Anyway, I won't discuss Islam 'cause i don't know the religion enough. But I do know christianism enough. Jesus spent his life surrounded by sinners. He stopped the stoning of a prostitute. He ate his Last Super with the very man that he knew had sold him
Did he ever said "Now, those who have sinned, get away from me, you're not worthy enough to hear what I have to say." ? Did he ever ordered sinners to repent ? No, he always treated them with love and compassion. If only christians could do the same, if only they could stop bullying those who do not share their religious beliefs. I thought this kind of behaving was the trademark of Al-Qaida and ISIS, seems like they aren't the ones to think that the laws of God prevail over the laws of men. The only difference is the name of the god...



I absolutely love this response. I went to college for Christian psychology and so many men and women would be claiming the same beliefs as I, but would stick up their noses at anyone that didn't agree or didn't fit into what they deemed "good" or "right". That's a pretentious Christian with habits not taught in the Bible.

I'm a very spiritual person and my God is the Christian depiction, but when I see people I don't see Christian, Muslim, Jewish, black, or white. I see human. It's not your job to change people's lives and tell them how to live, you don't have to agree with everyone you meet. The reason we can't peacefully coexist is because we are so wrapped up in our own pride and we are so sure that WE are right that we forget that we're all the same. We're all searching and wondering and developing what we as individuals think is the point of this life, this world, this universe.

I'm approached negatively often because I am open about what I believe but I am open about being an adult star. I'm considered a hypocrite, a liar, a fake. A persons relationship with religion or science has nothing to do with you. All of our life events affect our belief system and you have no right to judge the next person. Life should be about developing yourself as an individual and developing yourself as a positive step in coexistence.
 
Not only is the whole thing stupid and constitutionally questionable, but how the hell is "sincerely held religious belief" supposed to be determined? Who is the government to say what somebody claims as their religion is sincere or not? Going off that any business can use pretty much any religious excuse they want to freely discriminate when it suits them.
 
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